tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post7315642724449231686..comments2024-03-09T05:53:59.542-05:00Comments on Oz and Ends: Laika: One-Way TicketUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-80890719212382527592008-11-07T17:27:00.000-05:002008-11-07T17:27:00.000-05:00Haddon was established in the UK as a picture-book...Haddon was established in the UK as a picture-book author before <I>The Curious Incident..</I>. I believe that book was published in dual editions for adult and teen readers; British publishers do that sort of thing a lot. I don't know if those editions both came out at the same time, or if the book "crossed over" from one age group to the other. <BR/><BR/>Zusak was established in Australia as a YA author before <I>The Book Thief</I>. That title was published as a novel for adults there. I wonder if it was marketed here as a YA title because the American publisher wanted to establish him and bring out his other novels for teens as well. Usually Australian culture is rougher than American, so I can't think their editors were more shy about a Holocaust novel narrated by Death. <BR/><BR/>Big publishing companies are organized with children's and YA books in one division, adult books in another. That means that even if a book can cross over the fuzzy YA/adult boundary, its revenue still has to be assigned one place or the other. A different corporate organization could well produce different labels for books.J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-40111819076282866452008-11-07T17:13:00.000-05:002008-11-07T17:13:00.000-05:00Odd, I know a number of high schools where Slaught...Odd, I know a number of high schools where <I>Slaughterhouse Five</I> is required reading, as are works by Orwell, Steinbeck, Hemingway, Fitzgerald, &c. And I know (and have worked in) books stores where those books are shelved in with the teen books.<BR/><BR/>No, they weren't written for a YA audience any more than I think a number of teen-friendly graphic novels were conceived for a YA audience. But this goes to the problem that comes from the YA label, which is largely for marketing and award purposes. <BR/><BR/>I've talked to writers who reluctantly refer to their books as YA because, depending on who they are talking to, there are a number of assumptions in people's minds when they say it -- mainly "oh, you write for <I>children</I>. It the same way with graphic novels when they get boxed in as "comics" and where the distinction between comics and graphic novels is slippery.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps someone with more knowledge can chime in on this, but I believe Mark Haddon's <I>Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night</I> and Zusak's <I>The Book Thief</I> weren't seen in their respective countries (UK, AUS) as teen books, but that's how they're marketed here. <BR/><BR/>The category of YA is almost as hard to define as graphic novel. There are books suitable for 13 and up, and some I wouldn't recommend to readers under 16 or 17. Without reawakening the "what is YA argument?" here I will say that this same problem of age appropriateness is true of graphic novels across the spectrum. The comic industry doesn't generally make the same distinctions children's publishers do, and therein lies a whole different ball of wax.david elzeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16653215150526146224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-36341471450074998222008-11-07T17:09:00.000-05:002008-11-07T17:09:00.000-05:00Is it okay to entice your reader into a story that...<I>Is it okay to entice your reader into a story that wouldn't otherwise interest him? Or are you putting one over on your audience?</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, it's okay, and yes, you're putting one over. That's what fiction is.<BR/><BR/>You're making people care about characters that don't exist, often in a world that can't exist. There's no rational reason for anyone to be interested in such things. And since readers have never encountered those people or places before, there's no way that they could care about them already. <BR/><BR/>But good storytelling makes those characters and that world interesting enough for readers to believe in, on some level, and to spend time on.<BR/><BR/>Another way to look at this issue is if we give readers only what they're already interested in, then culture becomes an endless feedback loop. We'd just be pandering.J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-40508100196533922062008-11-07T16:57:00.000-05:002008-11-07T16:57:00.000-05:00"Whether many people of any age would want to is d..."Whether many people of any age would want to is dubious."<BR/><BR/><BR/>I didn't that Abadzis was aiming for the teen reader. I don't think the author of Maus was either. But your comment made me wonder, what if someone did? Is it okay to entice your reader into a story that wouldn't otherwise interest him? Or are you putting one over on your audience?<BR/><BR/>When it comes to reading--with adults, I feel it's caveat emptor. I feel that way about most young adults, as well. Decide for yourself what you want to read. As a writer, though, I feel responsible for checking my motivations from time to time to be sure that I am not being manipulative-- writing something just because I can, that might force a lesson on my reader.<BR/><BR/>I realize that I wandered off topic. I'm sorry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-12520662774339421992008-11-07T16:32:00.000-05:002008-11-07T16:32:00.000-05:00Hmm, I think I was rambling. I didn't mean "teens...Hmm, I think I was rambling. I didn't mean "teens need to read up" as a controversial statement. I was thinking of shelving difficulties -- brought on by david elzey's comment about Vonnegut. I wouldn't call Slaughter House Five a teen book, but I wouldn't quibble about shelving it in the teen section. So Laika seems a similar case. It gets a Young Adult label because it is not a bad idea to have it in the teen section, not because it is a book intended for YA. Two different kinds of thing, but we only have one label. Once we stick the label on, people see it as a book for 12 and up. This happens with prose books as well, but I can see how the graphic novel format increases the impression that the book is for a younger reader.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-23755480857086074432008-11-07T12:14:00.000-05:002008-11-07T12:14:00.000-05:00Interesting comments about First Second's approach...Interesting comments about First Second's approach to age categories, Roger. I'd noticed, looking at <I>Laika</I> and the publisher's webpages, that there was no handy label.<BR/><BR/>It's easier to make the case that <I>American-Born Chinese</I> is inherently for young readers since it's about schoolkids. But the Printz rules require some sort of label? Hmmm. Has anyone told the <A HREF="http://www.notoagebanding.org" REL="nofollow">No to Age Banding</A> folks?J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-85341416996246518082008-11-07T12:07:00.000-05:002008-11-07T12:07:00.000-05:00To the anonymous poster, I'm not sure whom you're ...To the anonymous poster, I'm not sure whom you're referring to when you write "the way you have described it." And that's at least partly because you seem to be responding to the questions you've raised yourself rather than the posting or the comments.<BR/><BR/>I think Mike Abadzis created <I>Laika</I> in comics form because he's a comics writer and artist. I don't think he sat down to make a choice between prose and comics forms, and decided which was more likely to appeal to teenagers.<BR/><BR/>Later came the question of whom that graphic novel should be marketed to. In our culture, as I've written here and elsewhere, the comics form implies to a lot of people that the material is for younger readers. (Unless there are naked people in it.) <BR/><BR/>Reviewers seem to have been the first to start classifying <I>Laika</I> as a Young Adult graphic novel, a label I have some trouble with. (The "Young Adult" side, not—for once—the "graphic novel" side.) Or perhaps individual reviewers didn't feel that the book was <I>just</I> for teens, but that teens shouldn't miss it, and their recommendations and the cultural prevalence tipped the book into the Young Adult box. <BR/><BR/>How do you reconcile your statement that "teens need to 'read up' about adulthood" with the thought that "'for the good of the children' is always a danger in this field"? By "need to," do you mean teens' internal motivations? Or were you also suggesting that reading up was "for the good" of those young readers?J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-81711869719516759692008-11-07T11:02:00.000-05:002008-11-07T11:02:00.000-05:00I thought Laika was for adults, really. First Seco...I thought <I>Laika</I> was for adults, really. First Second does not categorize its books as juvenile or adult but says (said to me, anyway) that they do some of each as well as some-for-both. Thus my raised eyebrows when American Born Chinese won the Printz, which was supposed to be very strict about only being for books labeled YA by their publishers.Roger Suttonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00030627312439744621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-28042070681276424512008-11-07T08:50:00.000-05:002008-11-07T08:50:00.000-05:00So, is it a good or a bad thing to take a topic yo...So, is it a good or a bad thing to take a topic you think teens wouldn't be interested in and dress it up with a graphic novel format to get their attention?<BR/><BR/>Are you condescending to the audience? Manipulating them against their own right to self-direction? Or are you the mentor bringing teens out into the wider world? <BR/><BR/>I think teens would have read the Holocaust story of Maus without the graphic novel format. Would they have had any interest in the story of the middle aged narrator? I think teens need to "read up" about adulthood the same way tweens read-up about teenagers. So I am glad when books give them the opportunity to do so. <BR/><BR/>But the way you have described it makes it seem almost like trickery. <BR/><BR/>Now that I think of it-- "for the good of the children" is always a danger in this field, in prose, or pictures. I guess it's just important to check our motivations from time to time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-22647524611709633282008-11-06T13:23:00.000-05:002008-11-06T13:23:00.000-05:00There might also be different ways of thinking of ...There might also be different ways of thinking of "accessible." I think both teens and adults <I>could</I> read a prose account of the Soviet satellite launch. Whether many people of any age would <I>want</I> to is dubious. The graphic-novel format, at least in our current culture, definitely seems more "fun."J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-45981173458039919232008-11-06T13:19:00.000-05:002008-11-06T13:19:00.000-05:00As it is currently written, no, I don't think the ...As it is currently written, no, I don't think the book work work as prose. This is one of those situations where the illustrations work with the text in a way that balances the "heaviness" of the story.<BR/><BR/>And I agree, accessible for "teen and up" much the same as <I>Maus</I>.david elzeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16653215150526146224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-13090118868578825962008-11-06T13:14:00.000-05:002008-11-06T13:14:00.000-05:00I think that Laika as a graphic novel is accessibl...I think that <I>Laika</I> as a graphic novel is accessible to <I>both</I> teens and adults (especially if the latter squint a bit). <BR/><BR/>Does saying that it's "accessible to teens <I>because</I> of the graphic novel format" imply that it <I>wouldn’t</I> be accessible to teens (or most teens) if it were in a mostly prose form? <BR/><BR/>As your example (and mine, and just about every other habitual reader's) shows, teens are usually capable of reading literature created for adults as long as it's interesting.J. L. Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15405157000473731801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-66026790863125907952008-11-06T13:04:00.000-05:002008-11-06T13:04:00.000-05:00I'm going to have to disagree here, fellow judge. ...I'm going to have to disagree here, fellow judge. I think that <I>Laika</I> is accessible to teens <B>because</B> of the graphic novel format. And I think our culture has a tendency to dumb down its expectations over what it appropriate for teens. I would have gone insane if I hadn't discovered Vonnegut, Lenny Bruce, and Phillip Roth when I was 14. And I am torn about the whole notion of YA books in general because of the way they are marketed to appeal toward lower standards.<BR/><BR/>I agree, the dead dog thing in kids books is annoying, clearly meant to manipulate a reader's emotions. But with <I>Laika</I> the story is true, so I accept it more readily.david elzeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16653215150526146224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28103455.post-9319255325282887562008-11-06T12:16:00.000-05:002008-11-06T12:16:00.000-05:00I have often wondered about the dead dog phenomeno...I have often wondered about the dead dog phenomenon in books. Why do dogs get so consistently killed off?*<BR/><BR/>It's why I passed on Laika. Couldn't bring myself to read yet another dead dog book.<BR/><BR/>*There are a few exceptions to this, of course, but they are far outnumbered by the offed dogs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com